If they're looking for love, they can find it in the motherland. Judging by the brutal treatment that those loving Mexicans give to their illegal immigrant brothers from El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicuragua, etc., are they really deserving of anything different? They actually receive far more humane due process in this country than they give to their fellow Hispanics in Central America, even with the current hostility to there presence in this country. Maybe their hypocrisy is generating this kharma? Do you think? I wonder why you don't address this issue. One of those inconvenient truths to ignore?

Yep, I'm feeling the love. The love for the rule of law of which this country is based on. Citizens and states bound together by love of their country to return it to a nation of laws that welcomes legal immigrants but not illegal aliens. Yep, I am feeling the love.

The only no-brainer is this:

The illegal immigrants should go home. I'd be willing to bet that they could go to college in Central or South America--assuming they had grades good enough to qualify.

I don't understand why these people should feel that they have any more right to be here than the immigrant from Poland, Ireland, China or Canada for example, who waits in the "line" to gain legal admittance.

This country has enough problems without importing any from foreign countries.

Get over it!

There is no line. Repeat after me: there is no line. You can't get a visa simply by applying and waiting patiently outside the country until it's your turn. It doesn't work that way unless you are rich, but then why would you be trying to emigrate here anyway?

There. Is. No. Line.

Line or no line, it is still against federal law to enter our country illegally.

Yes, Yave, no line. So what? This is no line for a good reason. It is because that no nation has as its social or economic objectives the importation of illiterate and unskilled. There is no, I repeat no moral or legal obligation on the part of this country to accept these people as immigrants. Even your precious Mexico shows contempt for its illegal aliens. We decide who is eligible to come here, not illegal immigrants, not the government of Mexico, not Yave or his communist reconquistas. Name one country, Yave, that would do so.

There's no line for illiterate and unskilled Central Americans as immigrants to Mexico. I repeat, no line. Once again for Yave and the mentally retarded, no line for Central Americans who would immigrate to Mexico. No line, Yave. And there is no line for such people to immigrate to Europe, Asia or other countries in South America, for the reasons previously given.

I have to repeat that there is no line because one of the principal restrictionist arguments, and I will quote verbatim, is "Wait In Line Like Everybody Else." It featured prominently in a few of the GOP presidential debates.

So I guess we won't see that argument in this blog's comments again, since everyone agrees it is specious.

yave, we do have work visas for the uneducated who want to do agricultural jobs. The problem is that illegal aliens have made themselves available to the farmers so they don't feel the need to use those visas and hire legal immigrants for those jobs. Yet they cry about the crops dying in the fields.

I am not an expert on work visas but I believe there are avenues open for work visas for some other low skilled jobs too. The employers must show that they cannot find Americans to do those jobs first though in all fairness.

yave, another thing is that there are more immigrants that want to come here than we have jobs for (ones Americans won't do for a fair wage). So even if there were a line, there would be too many in line and not enough jobs. The immigrants would still just jump the border then and offer to work for less to cut off those who are in line.

I posted the "Taxing Undocumented Immigrants" article in the other thread to see if those posters who invoke the "rule of law" in every thread were really restrictionist and staunch supporters of the "rule of law."

Frank is the person who invokes the "rule of law" on every thread when protesting the presence of immigrants and Hispanics in this country, but totally ignored it when presented with plenty of credible evidence showing how the law is set aside when it comes to the treatment of immigrants.

The revolution against the British was fought because of "Taxation without Representation" yet when it applies to immigrants the hate-mongers applaud it.

The 14th amendment states:
....no state shill make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; NOR DENY TO ANY PERSON WITHIN IT'S JURISDICTION THE EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAWS

Slander and 'defamation of character' are against the law, but are used on this forum on a daily bases against Hispanics and immigrants. Instead of invoking the "rule of law" when this is done, Frank and others applaud those who are breaking the law and cheer them on.
What hypocrisy!

The vast majority of unauthorized immigrants pay MORE in taxes than American citizens do because they don't qualify for the same deductions citizens do. WHAT? MORE IN TAXES AND THEY ARE NOT REPRESENTED WHEN UNJUST LAWS LIKE THESE ARE MADE???? Where is the outrage? The law, 14th amendment clearly states; "NOR DENY ANY PERSON WITHIN IT'S JURISDICTION THE EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAWS."

The IRS permits a change of status from "Illegal alien" to "U.S. resident" so they (IRS) can collect taxes, by using what they call 'substantial presence test'. To qualify, illegal aliens must be present in the U.S. thirty one (31) days during the tax year. BOOM just like that nothing to document, no paperwork, no line to stand in, you could be "JACK THE RIPPER" for all they care as long as they can get your money they don't give a damn.

According to the 14th amendment that is against the law because they wont change the status of the Immigrants so they can work in peace or live in peace. Where are those who invoke the "rule of law"................................................where is the outrage Frank..............Horace..............Nope only when it furthers their racists agenda of hate are they present.

Physically present for 31 days, just like that 31 days and every year for a few seconds while the illegal aliens pay taxes they are considered U.S. residents. It reeks of HYPOCRISY, INJUSTICE, UN-EQUALITY, and every other disgusting word I can think of.

How can we tax people more than we pay, impose our laws upon them, but not at least grant them any of the "inalienable human rights?"

Is that why we call them 'illegal', because as the bigots claim (every time they refer to the person of an immigrant as illegal alien), they don't have a right to exist under the same freedoms we expect for ourselves, even though the law states otherwise? How many laws are we breaking by doing this?

Once again we find that those who support "rule of law" only use it to demonize and dehumanize immigrants. They no more support "rule of law" than some monkey in a tree. WARNING TO RULE OF LAW-ERS. Don't whine when you get called HYPOCRITES along with liars and racists. You just proved you are also hypocrites.

Marisa,

Thank you for a thoughtful post. I, too, lament the lack of love toward our neighbors, and I touched on the subject of love in a recent post about the intersection of values, immigrant law, and the presidential race.

It's amazing that people dismiss the importance of this crucial value.

Best regards,

John Lamb
Hispanic Nashville Notebook
http://www.hispanicnashville.com

P.S.: That post I mentioned is here:
http://www.hispanicnashville.com/2008/02/why-i-support-barack-obama.html

For the Ignoramuses posting on this forum who think we should treat immigrants the same way Mexico treats Immigrants coming into their country. I AGREE, the humane, orderly, no hassles process Mexico uses when foreigners enter that country should be copied in this country for sure.

Horace and the other racist hypocrites use lies to make it look like Mexico is inhumane in their treatment of foreigners. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have a home in Mexico. I have travelled to Mexico and throughout Mexico, and have never seen or experienced any trouble with immigration. A 15 minute stop at 'la aduana' (emigration office) on the border and $20. is all one needs to stay in Mexico for 6 months. This can be renewed every 6 months too.

This article should pretty much debunk your lies Horace.
After you read this don't come out swinging at me like you did with the last article I used to prove my point. Please contact the Mexican Government if you have any complaints about their immigration laws.

Digital Immigration Card Shows Mexico's Progressive Views On Immigration

By Louis E.V. Nevaer, posted Jan. 14, 2008

Editor's note: This March, Mexico will start to use digitally embedded immigration cards to track migrant workers. NAM commentator argues that this is just another step in Mexico's long track record of of progressive views on immigration-- one that America could learn from.

Mexico City---While Washington is at an impasse over the status of millions of people who entered the United States without proper visas, Mexico is unrolling a new digitally- embedded immigration card that will allow hundreds of thousands of temporary workers and visitors to come and go at will. This migratory card, in addition to having the bearer's photograph and fingerprints, has electronic chips that can be scanned-facilitating the movement of people across Mexico's borders.

"This will allow for a seamless and secure movement across the border," a statement from Mexico's National Immigration Institute said. The new cards will be distributed beginning in March 2008, and it is estimated that over a million will be in use by the end of 2008.

That Mexico is pursuing the model used in the European Union--where over two dozen nations enjoy free movement of people across national borders--is in keeping with Mexico's historic commitment of striving to "regularize" the legal status of its inhabitants. This is not to say that Mexico exercises no control over it's borders: In 2006 Mexico detained more than 182,000 people who entered the country illegally from nearby Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and even far away China, South Africa, and Pakistan.

But through the 20th Century, Mexico has consistently granted asylum and sanctuary to immigrants fleeing political turmoil from neighboring countries. Mexico's most noteworthy case of granting sanctuary occurred in the early 1960s, when thousands of Cubans sought political asylum by entering the Embassies of Latin American nations in Havana. At that time many Latin American Nations were in the process of severing ties to Castro, because of the U.S.-led push against communism-set into action by a resolution adopted at the Eighth Meeting of Consultation in Punta del Este, Uruguay, on January 21, 1962. Every nation who attended-except Mexico-broke diplomatic relations with the Castro regime. At that time, the Mexican embassy pulled off the impressive feat of evacuating some 1,000 Cubans in the face of the Cuban authorities.

This sensational case aside, Mexico has garnered praise for five instances in which it has granted asylum and sanctuary to massive waves of political and economic refugees.

In the 1930s, more than 100,000 Spaniards were allowed to enter Mexico unconditionally, part of a massive exodus of refugees fleeing the Spanish Civil War.

In the 1940s, more than 75,000 Americans, mostly from California and New York, established permanent residence in Mexico, as part of an exodus caused by McCarthyism.

In the 1970s an estimated 50,000 Chileans were granted asylum after August Pinochet seized control and established a military dictatorship.

At the end of the 70s, almost 200,000 Salvadorans who fled their nations civil war were granted Mexican residency.

In the 1980s and 1990s, an estimated 225,000 Guatemalans fleeing from that country's counterinsurgency conflict were granted refuge in Mexico, in an operation so large that it was done in conjunction with the United Nations High Commutator for refugees (UNHCR).

Through the years, the underlying principal that governs Mexico's approach is the fundmantal respect for the dignity of the individual-THE IDEA THAT THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD WHO
IS"ILLEGAL. THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THEIR LIVES ARE HAPPENSTANCE, AND IT IS THE OBLIGATION OF GOVERNMENTS TO RESPOND TO THE REALITIES OF THE LIVES OF INDIVIDUALS.

Mexican officials, for more than a quarter century, have been frustrated by the recalcitrant attitude taken by U.S. authorities. American companies take out ads on Mexican radio telling Mexicans of "high paying" jobs waiting for them in the meat-packing plants in the Midwest and the southwest, while the American government takes out other ads warning them of the dangers of attempting to make desert crossings. That the United States is incapable of implementing a coherent policy is another matter. While Mexico is rolling out 21st century technology in the first quarter of 2008, the United States--after spending tens of millions of dollars on similar cards cant use them, since U.S. border inspectors are not equipped with the scanners necessary to read them.

Mexico, in fact, understands that their are times when a nation needs assistance. in 1981, after tens of thousands of Guatemalans began to enter Mexico, the Mexican government availed itself to the United Nations, and that body's UNHRC entered into an agreement with Mexico's Commission on Refugees, known as COMAR. It was than that an orderly process was established to help more than 200,000 Guatemalan families who sought refuge in Mexico's southern states.

Mexicans believe that the United Nations can similarly help the United States. Mexicans argue that the time has come for the United Nations to begin a process of bringing the estimated millions of people living in the shadows of American society into the light. There is no reason why the United Nations cannot be brought in to assist Homeland Security and the Census Bureau to complete the years-long task of securing the United States broken borders, and regularizing the millions of immigrants who have, one way or another, managed to find their way to the United States.

I am against all law breakers, including those in our own government. But we first need to go back to the source of the ones who broke the law in the "first place" that created this snowballing effect of laws being broken by government enities...THE ILLEGALS THEMSELVES. The solution is to enforce our immigration laws, check all workers validity and right to work in this country and fire those who are here illegally and then there will be no taxation without representation problem. As I said, the only way to fix it is to go to the source of the problem and stop it there. The answer isn't to continue to allow illegal aliens to work in this country and thereby being taxed and then them claiming they aren't getting representation. Let's nip the problem in the bud and get rid of ALL the corruption.

These are my remarks about Mexico's immigration policies:

I read the entire thing and NOWHERE did it make any mention where Mexico allows these "hundreds of thousands" of migrants to obtain CITIZENSHIP where they will then be allowed to affect public policy!

As to the "open borders" in Europe--the same thing applies. There is a free movement of people between members of the European Union. However, there is no "RIGHT" for any European citizen to LIVE AND WORK in another country! All of the countries have strict labor laws which protect the jobs of citizens in their respective countries! In order to LIVE AND TAKE A JOB in a European country besides you own, you must obtain a visa and a work permit. The Europeans do not allow their own citizens to be displaced from jobs. Employers are held to strict standards and must prove that they cannot fill the jobs from within the citizen population. AGAIN, even if one can obtain a WORK visa, the European countries DO NOT AWARD CITIZENSHIP! It is very difficult to become a citizen in European countries, almost impossible in some. And NO EUROPEAN COUNTRY recognizes birthright citizenship!

Oh, and ALL EUROPEAN COUNTRIES HAVE THEIR OFFICIAL LANGUAGE AND NO EUROPEAN NEEDS TO LEARN THE "GUEST WORKERS'"LANGUAGE TO FUNCTION IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.

Sorry to make you out to be a liar, Evelyn, but this refutes everything you assert:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0206migrantrights.html

Migrants mistreated in Mexico, report says
Chris Hawley
Republic Mexico City Bureau
Feb. 6, 2007 12:00 AM

Mexico's human rights agency has accused officials in Sonora of mistreating illegal Central American migrants, saying detainees were jammed into overcrowded cells and denied food and water for hours during a crackdown last year.

The report comes as the Mexican government, under pressure from the United States, is ramping up efforts to catch thousands of foreigners passing through on their way to the U.S. border, and as migrant rights groups complain authorities are ill-equipped for the task.

Mexico's National Commission on Human Rights said immigration agents "violated (migrants') right to legality, judicial protection and dignified treatment" during a two-week inspection period from April 20 to May 7. Its report was released Jan. 19. advertisement

The inspection coincided with a crackdown in Sonora, said Maria Jesus Romero, regional spokeswoman for the National Migration Institute, Mexico's immigration-control agency.

Immigration agents had set up checkpoints along major highways to catch Central Americans traveling by bus to the U.S. border, she said. They were temporarily putting detainees in police lockups in Caborca, 80 miles southwest of Nogales, and in Hermosillo, 170 miles south of Nogales.

The report said immigration agents held as many as 78 people in four cells designed for five people each in Hermosillo. Most of the detainees were Guatemalans, followed by Hondurans and Salvadorans.

The commission's inspectors said there was not enough drinking water or blankets to go around, the toilets lacked water, and detainees were forced to sleep on the floors of the cells.

One detainee at the Caborca jail reported that he and six other migrants were denied food and water from 8:30 p.m. to 5 p.m. the next day. The report did not say whether the inspectors confirmed the complaint but did say they had received similar reports from other migrants.

Romero denied the migrants were mistreated.

"During the time of those highway checkpoints, it is true that the number of detainees went up dramatically," she said. "But they were held in those police stations only temporarily and never for more than 12 hours."

The National Human Rights Commission's findings have no legal force, but the publicly funded agency has much prestige, and its reports are taken seriously.

Mexico's constitution guarantees the right of free travel to its citizens, meaning Mexican authorities cannot stop their countrymen from crossing into the United States. But they are free to detain illegal border-crossers from other countries, and the United States has been urging them to do so as part of efforts to boost its own border security.

Many Mexicans empathize with these Central American travelers. But other people, especially in southern states like Chiapas, fear that Central Americans will eventually begin settling in Mexico and taking Mexicans' jobs. They also are worried about crime brought by the Mara Salvatrucha, Central American gangsters who control the immigration routes.

On Dec. 14, new President Felipe Calderón announced expanded security measures to stem the flow of Central American migrants. They include new police task forces along the Chiapas-Guatemala border, an overhaul of Mexico's visa program for seasonal farmworkers, and inspections to make sure Central Americans are in Mexico legally.

"I have the firm conviction that we can achieve a secure border and, at the same time, guarantee the human rights of all," Calderón said in a speech in Chiapas.

Mexico's Government Secretariat has also proposed tightening rules for detained migrants, the national newspaper El Universal reported Monday.

A secretariat document says the rules include fingerprinting and photographing migrants and would give immigration agents the power to deny them visitors for up to 20 days, the newspaper said.

Federal offices were closed for Monday's Constitution Day holiday, so the newspaper report could not be confirmed.

Still, the Jan. 19 human rights report raises questions about Mexico's preparedness for a crackdown, migrant rights groups say.

"Here in Sonora, Central American migrants are an afterthought," said Noemi Peregrino González, director of the Nogales, Sonora, Migrant Support Committee. "There's a lack of interest in their rights and a lack of resources to deal with them."

Mexico deported 179,345 people last year, most of them Central Americans. About 4,100 of those were caught in Sonora. By comparison, authorities in Arizona voluntarily removed or deported about 500,000 immigrants in 2006.

"It's fine for Calderón to say he's going to protect the human rights of those migrants, but it's impossible," said Antonio Velázquez, president of the Maya Chapin Guatemalan Organization of Arizona. "The authorities will just be free to abuse people even more."

I suggest that you know nothing about the corruption that exists near Mexico's southern borders.

Evelyn, Mexico's illegals are apparently not treated as equals in the Hispanic brotherhood. Maybe you should check on the southern border of your beloved Mexico and mingle with the peasants and find out the truth. Why don't you take this to the UN? You won't because you're a hypocrite, preferring to whitewash the corruption of Mexico and blame the US for everything. You're not a US citizen or a Mexican, but a stooge for the Mexican government:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0206migrantrights.html

By Mark Stevenson
ASSOCIATED PRESS

10:04 a.m. April 18, 2006

Central American migrants try to climb on a train headed north on their way to the United States. While Mexican immigrants demonstrate across the U.S. for better treatment of undocumented migrants, Mexico's own illegal population — hundreds of thousands of Central Americans — face robberies, assaults and extortion.
TULTITLAN, Mexico – While migrants in the United States have held tremendous demonstrations in recent weeks, the hundreds of thousands of undocumented Central American migrants in Mexico suffer mostly in silence.
Considered felons by the Mexican government, they fear detention, rape and robbery. Police and soldiers hunt them down at railroads, bus stations and fleabag hotels. Sometimes they are deported; more often officers simply take all their money.

While Mexico demands the humane treatment of its citizens who migrate to the U.S., it appears to be unable to guarantee similar rights for Central American migrants to this country.

The level of brutality Central American migrants face in Mexico was underscored on Monday, when police conducting a raid for undocumented migrants near a rail yard in central Mexico state shot to death a local man, apparently because his dark skin and work clothes made him look like a Central American.

Virginia Sanchez, a housewife who lives near the railroad tracks that carry Central Americans north to the U.S. border, say shootings like the one Monday in her town of Tultitlan are not infrequent.

"In the night, you hear the gunshots, and it's the judiciales (state police) chasing the migrants,” Sanchez said. “It's not fair to kill these people. It's not fair in the United States and it's not fair here.”
Neighbor Maria Elena Gonzalez said police sexually abuse female migrants. “The migrants have told us that they detain them just to rape them. They force them to strip, supposedly to search them, but the purpose is to sexually abuse them.”

Guatemalan immigrant Carlos Lopez, 28, who lay hidden in a nearby field waiting for a train heading north to the U.S.border, said Mexican police routinely rob and release migrants.

“If you're carrying any money, they take it from you – federal, state, local police, all of them,” Lopez said. In the 15 days he had been traveling across Mexico, Lopez, a farm laborer, recounted how he had been shaken down from the minute he stepped into the country.

“The soldiers were there as soon as we crossed the river,” he said. They said, 'You can't cross ... unless you leave something for us.'”

Sitting nearby, Jose Ramos, 18, of El Salvador, said the extortion occurs at every stop in Mexico, until migrants are left penniless and begging for food.

“If you're on a bus, they pull you off and search your pockets and if you have any money, they keep it and say, 'Get out of here,'” Ramos said of police in southern Chiapas state.

Others told of migrants beaten to death by police, their bodies left near the railway tracks to make it look as if they had fallen from the trains.

Central Americans, as columnist Gustavo Arellano of the Orange County Weekly pointed out, “are the Mexicans of Mexico.”

Migrants generally acknowledge that Mexican federal immigration agents are among the more honest of the country's law enforcement officers. The problem is, most migrants here usually are detained by police or soldiers, who technically aren't authorized to enforce immigration laws. Meanwhile, Mexico objects to the United States using army and local police forces to detain migrants.

Among other ironies: Mexican-migrant activists in the United States hotly oppose a congressional bill that would make undocumented immigration in the U.S. a felony – but Mexican law already classifies it as such. The crime is punishable by up to two years in prison, although deportation is more common.

The number of undocumented migrants detained in Mexico almost doubled from 2002, when 138,061 were caught, and 2005, when the number reached 240,269. Guatemalans represent 42 percent of those detained and Hondurans, 32.6 percent. Salvadorans account for most of the rest.

While pressing the United States for the legalization of millions of its citizens in the United States, Mexico has done little to legalize its own migrants: With a population of about 105 million, the government granted legalization to only about 15,000 migrants in the past five years.

Like the United States, Mexico is becoming reliant on immigrant labor. In a speech on immigration issues presented last year, Magdalena Carral, then-director of Mexico's National Immigration Institute, noted that Central American migrants were not just passing through on their way to the U.S., but were also staying and looking for work in southern Mexico.

“There are sectors of the Mexican economy which face labor shortages, but because there is no formal or efficient method (for work visas), they have to do it as undocumented workers,” Carral said.

Immigrants here account for only 0.5 percent of the population – far less than the 12 percent in the United States – so there is little public sentiment against the undocumented as there is in the U.S.

Compared with many of those demonstrating for citizenship rights in the United States, Lopez, who was waiting for the train, is poorer – he comes from an area of Guatemala where the average wage is often less than US$1 (euro.82) per day – and he doesn't plan to stay here forever.

“I think it would be good if you could work for two years, save up a little, and return to your own country with enough money to build a house,” Lopez said, adding that his dream house would “have four walls and nobody coming in at the end of the month telling you to pay the rent.”

Jose Luis Soberanes, president of Mexico's National Human Rights Commission, issued a report in December documenting many of the abuses of migrant rights.

“One of the saddest national failings on immigration issues,” Soberanes said, “is the contradiction in demanding that the North (the United States) respect migrants' rights, which we are not capable of guaranteeing in the South.”

Evelyn,

I found this on the Nevada Appeal web site.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20080203/OPINION/872804342

Mexico could teach the U.S. a few things about border enforcement

Guy W. Farmer
For the Appeal
February 3, 2008, 4:01 AM

National Geographic is just about the last place I'd look for information about the illegal immigration crisis in our country. But the February issue of that prestigious magazine publishes a fascinating article about life along Mexico's southern border, and the callous methods the Mexican government employs to deal with illegal immigrants.

Every time I hear Mexican officials complain about how we allegedly mistreat illegals, I think of how they deal with "undocumented" people who sneak into their country from neighboring Guatemala and the rest of Central America. When I visited Mexico about two years ago their immigration officials were boasting about how many illegal aliens they had deported. Good for them, I thought, that's how all countries should handle the worldwide problem of illegal immigration.

National Geographic describes Mexico's problem this way: "For many immigrants heading north, the first dangerous crossing is not the one into the U.S. It's Southern Mexico, where the peril begins," writes magazine journalist Cynthia Gorney. "Sneaking into Mexico is as easy as rafting across the Suchiate River ... to Ciudad Hidalgo (Mexico). But on the other side migrants face ruthless bandits and officials demanding bribes."

Ms. Gorney reveals that more than 400,000 Central Americans attempt the illegal crossing into southern Mexico each year, and that at least 150,000 of them are bound for the U.S. "It's at the Southern Mexico border where the perils begin - the thugs, the drug runners, the extortionists in official uniforms, the police and migration agents who pack undocumented migrants into detention facilities before forcing them onto buses to be deported," writes Ms. Gorney. And Mexico complains about U.S. border enforcement.

Tapachula, a border city of 270,000, is a gateway for Central Americans bound for Mexico and/or the U.S., but illegal immigrants bring many problems with them. Ms. Gorney interviews a Mexican shop owner in Tapachula who opposes illegal immigration on grounds that Guatemalans are "too servile," Hondurans too "gang-inclined" and Salvadorans "too hotheaded."

"When Mexicans talk about undocumented migrants in their midst, they sound like Americans: Resentful, sympathetic, patronizing (and) perplexed," Ms. Gorney observes. Simply put, a double standard urges us to ignore illegal immigration while Mexico continues to dump illegals back across its southern border with Guatemala. While politicians and journalists use politically correct words like "undocumented workers" to describe illegals, Mexican officials don't worry about PC niceties or legal technicalities when they round up illegals and summarily deport them.

Double standard

Here in the U.S. an illegal immigrant gets a hearing in federal court. In Mexico, an illegal often gets whacked upside the head before he or she is thrown into the river that marks the border between Mexico and Guatemala. If an American border patrol agent threw an illegal immigrant into the Rio Grande we'd never hear the end of it from Mexican officials and the ACLU, who'd be hollering about the alleged constitutional "rights" of immigrants. Again, a double standard prevails.

"Look, this (illegal border crossing) is a business," a Mexican university professor told National Geographic. He meant not only the daily business along the riverbank, but also the broader interactions between desperately poor immigrants "and the fierce economic pull from the north." That's why illicit border-crossers are willing to pay "coyotes" (human smugglers) between $5,000 and $7,000 to sneak them into Mexico, and on into the U.S.

"More sophisticated international operations charge several times that amount to smuggle migrants who have reached Central America by sea or by air," the magazine added, leaving open the possibility that some of those illegal immigrants come from the war-torn Middle East, where terrorism is a way of life. Consider that ominous possibility the next time a presidential candidate advocates amnesty disguised as "comprehensive immigration reform." No thanks!

As I've noted many times, thousands of illegal immigrants are involved in the drug trade as the tentacles of Mexican drug cartels reach all the way into Northern Nevada. My guess is that most of the suspects arrested in a huge Tri-Net drug bust in Carson last month were illegals, as were those gang bangers who took a shot at a local sheriff's deputy a couple of weeks ago. Our state prison system is already overburdened with illegal immigrant criminals, with more on the way.

The admirable efforts of the Carson City anti-meth coalition should include an immediate crackdown on illegals and gang activity. We should treat them the same way that Mexican authorities treat theirs - by deporting them right back to where they came from.

• Guy W. Farmer, of Carson City, served in Mexico and several other Latin American countries during his 28-year career in the U.S. Foreign Service.

The Europeans have the right idea. They put their country and their citizens first while still allowing legal immigrants into their countries as we do.

I read where the German government decided to restrict guest workers from Turkey; apparently, the German people have had enough of the Turks. See, they do not allow any accusations of "racism" to get in the way of doing what is in their best interests. The same for the French. They would NEVER allow foreign nationals to dictate their foreign policy. They would NEVER allow foreigners to tell them what language to speak in their own damned country. Can you imagine any foreigner going into France and telling the French they need to learn another language other than French to get by in their own country? Ha! Lots of luck with THAT one! Even the extremely liberal Dutch now require anyone who applies for immigration to Holland to learn Dutch. They also show a film during the application process about life in Holland; the message is that if the immigrant does not like the way life is lived in Holland, they should not immigrate!

In addition, while they have many nationalities living within their country, like I said, they do not award citizenship and so those who have no real emotional attachment to their country do not have a say in crafting the laws of that country. The French make the laws which affect the French, NOT people who have attachments to other countries. That is the way in most of the European countries. Although, they allow guest workers, these people do not have citizenship and have no say in how the country is run. And again, NO birthright citizenship. Quite different than what has been going on in this country. And look at the mess we are in now.

Love is easier to obtain from your neighbor if you've shown him respect. We've seen nothing but arrogant demands from the Mexican government or its people. Our neighbor kicks in our door, occupies our territory and tells us that we should love him. Love is given freely, not demanded. What Central Americans have earned is our contempt, not our love.

Frank

You say we have to go back to who broke the law. Well the way I see it we should start at the back of the line instead of the front of the line.

Would you consider it against the law for the U.S,gov. to install corrupt gov. officials in Mexico to suck their wealth out of Mexico into the U.S.? I do.

Would you consider the employers who offer the unauthorized immigrants jobs law breakers? I do.

Would you consider the U.S. gov. in violation "of consistency of a law" when the U.S. gov. looked the other way for so long creating the immigration mess?
If those laws would have been enforced consistently the immigrants would not have families here unless they were legal. I do.

How can you blame immigrants for everything and overlook the culpability of the others? Oh that's right, I forgot you hate them!!

PPSSS...psss Frank I'm going to tell you a secret. The second article wasn't about Mexican Immigration compared to European Immigration. The article only mentioned that the card, I repeat the card would be like the one used in Europe. Better get A comprehension test soon, that alzheimer's might be getting worse.

Say, I noticed you sure like the immigration policies the Europeans use. Why don't you move over their. The mother country and all. I hear Paris is beautiful in the spring time. If you go, take the others with you. Don't be selfish and go alone now. LOL!

Publius

Is it something in the water, or are you and Horace competing for a DUMB and DUMBER contest. You did the same thing he did.
You came out swinging, by calling me a liar, for an article that I posted, but someone else wrote. ???? I did express my experience and what I have seen when in Mexico so unless you were a mouse in my pocket how could you call me a liar???

Having dispensed with greetings that match yours, I will continue. First, the article you printed is dated Feb.6,2007. Mexico is going to implement the new immigration policy in March 2008, next month. The article doesnt talk about the past, it talks about the future. Did you even read the part of your article where it states: "the report comes as Mexico's gov., under pressure by from the United States is ramping up its efforts to catch thousands of foreigners passing through on their way to the U.S. border."

The author of the article states "detainees were jammed into over crowded cells and denied food and water for hours, during a crack down last year. The lady in charge denied the migrants were mistreated, they were never held for more than 12 hours."

Who is telling the truth? I don't Know. But I do know that these officials are kept on a tight leash if the only mistreatment is not having food and water for 12 hrs.

Where did it say anything about peoples homes being raided in the middle of the night, gestapo style rades with guns drawn in the middle of the night leaving little children scared to death, separating families, mothers and fathers taken away into the night. No where does the article talk about the immigrants being detained along with their children at jails like Hutto Americas shame. Where is the article that talks about a woman from Honduras being raped while being held at Hutto by a guard while her children watched. I saw nothing about the Mexican government giving the immigrants psychotropic drugs without a diagnosis by a Doctor that the immigrant is mentally ill. These drugs are given without a doctors priscription to immigrants before they are deported to their countries. One 8 month pregnant woman was given these drugs and was disoriented when she was released on the streets of Guatemala city, where she wondered for 2 days and didn't call her American husband like she was suppose to. Her baby died inside her and all the money she had was stolen from her. I could go on and on but I'm sure you get the picture.

Our immigration laws are a shame even compared to Mexico's old system which is described in this article. There is absolutely no comparison. Why is it so hard for you to accept the accomplishments of Mexico? Why do you hate Hispanics so much? You should be ashamed of yourself.

Publius

I noticed your post about, "neighbor kicks in the door, occupies our territory." I know you were not referring to the Hispanic Immigrants of today, you do know they all have jobs. They are invited by these jobs and the ads the companies take out in newspapers in Mexico, radio spots recruiting Mexican workers too. Our gov. didn't try to stop them either. Right?

I guess you are referring to the invader's from Europe that came long ago.

Horace

The guy who wrote this article you posted is misinformed about the act of a migrant entering Mexico without proper documentation or his presence in Mexico considered a felony.
That is not true. The word felony does not even exist in the Spanish language. Crimes are categorized as major or minor.

The date on that article you posted is April 18, 2006. The date on my article refers to March, now, not what happened 2 yrs ago.

I am aware that corruption by the cops in Mexico is rampant, so is the corruption and collusion between the U.S. gov, and the corrupt leaders in Mexico who are propelled into leadership positions by our gov.

Did you notice that your article states "migrants acknowledge that Mexican federal immigration officials are among the more honest of the countries law enforcement officers."
No where does it imply that immigration officials are mistreating migrants.

Further along the article states "crime of being in Mexico as unauthorized migrant is punishable by up to two yrs. in prison, but left out the part of the law in Mexico that states the migrant can get this sentence if he is found to be carrying drugs or committed some other crime. When migrants are picked up in Mexico they are sent to their country of origin as soon as possible. They are not allowed to stay and settle and have families like they are here in America. The only way they can stay in Mexico Immidieately is by marrying a Mexican citizen.

George, Publius, Horace,

I an going to write a letter to President Bush today to tell him that I am opposed to the American government asking the Mexican gov. for help in stemming the flow of drug runners and unauthorized migrants entering Mexico's southern border on their way here. I would suggest you guys do the same. I know all of you are against Comp. Immigration Reform. You want wide open borders and now you want all the migrants to come from Mexico without being detained at Mexico's southern border.

George

After a quick search I found the original article by National Geographic that the author of your article used. The N.G. article dose not speak of any mistreatment by migration officials in Mexico. The author of your article states that when he was in Mexico the "migration officials were boasting about how many illegal aliens they had deported." In Mexico migrants are not called "illegal aliens." That would be considered rude, I'm Sure you wont agree with me but Mexicans are very respectful. Even the children are taught respect at an early age.

The Mexican immigration official boasting about how many immigrants they deported was trying to impress. After all they are following orders from the U.S. gov. I guess the author of your article would rather the migrants come into the U.S. instead of being stopped at Mexicos southern border.

The only other reference to the treatment of migrants by N.G. is, "the police and migration agents who pack undocumented migrants into detention facilities before forcing them on buses to be deported." Why did he leave out, "the Tapachula migration station was recently built to hold 960 migrants and process them more quickly, the southward bound buses roll out every morning before dawn."

The rest of this authors ranting about the ACLU made me more suspicious. I found another article by the same author where he actually parrots hate speech, He lumps drugs, immigrants and crime into one and the same, and talks about the "sinister side to undocumented workers." This guy is clearly a racist who tried to whitewash his article and make it look like someone from National Geographic had written his openion into an article. Here is a link to the original NG article compare it to this guys views.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/02/mexicos-southern-border/cynthia-gorney-text/7

This is a link to the other article he wrote.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20071014/OPENION/110140168&SearchID=73308960390412

Because I know that 'SOME' of you, even knowing that your argument is full of holes, will come back and try to lie, spin, twist, turn, misinform, fear-monger, push, pull, re-focus or do anything possible under the sun to make it look like your article actually did prove that Mexican immigration authorities did mistreat of abuse foreign migrants much worse than immigrants are treated here in the U.S..

I will not answer unless you have a better argument. All the gibberish some of you always drag in here will be ignored.

Ordinarily I would come out and play, because it gives me great pleasure every time you show the world how ignorant your arguments are. But I have some very important projects I am working on right now and don't have a lot of free time on my hands. If you are guessing it has something to do with the election, you are right. I am very fortunate to be able to work for the Obama ticket.

I have OBAMAPHOBIA so be careful because everything is going to CHANGE. TA TA

Something important to do?Did Obama give you some poster paper and a crayon to play with?

Evermore looking like the village idiot, Evelyn resorts to denial in the face of documented facts. Publius, George and myself did not write the articles referenced above, and if you'd go to the web sites fort the articles you'd actually encounter the truth. The hypocrisies of the Mexican government cannot be refuted by sticking one's head in the sand.

I don't know how many times I have to say in here that the blame is threefold in this illegal immigration mess. 1. Our government. 2. The employers. 3. The illegals themselves. Some in here just don't get it and they only want to blame 1. and 2. I blame all three because they are ALL breaking our immigration laws.

Our immigration policies are just fine, they just haven't been enforced. We need to do that plus pass legislation to improve them. We can tweak them thru legislation that makes more sense of them like other countries. I don't need to leave my own country to see that this happens. I am a citizen and a voter and we can make it happen.

LOL! Now that's funny. Someone who constantly calls others liars first gets offended when they get called a liar back. We post our articles and they are called lies but when a certain someone in here posts hers it's always the gospel truth. Gotta love the hypocricy, don't we?

Take your head out of the sand Horace. I NEVER STATED YOU WROTE THAT ARTICLE, GOT IT? YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF WRITING AN ARTICLE! You're more the cut and paste type.

Let Publius and George take up for themselves. I'm sure they are big boys and don't need you to mess things up for them.

You just go back to your job as VILLAGE IDIOT and no one has to know. Dont worry, no one wants your job. It's still yours. It suites you better than anyone else.

I'm glad to see you changed your mind Frank. In your statement you specifically stated "the illegals themselves" were the ones who in "first place" broke the law.

If I unintentionally lie about something, and someone presents the truth to me, I have the sense to change my mind. THAT is the difference between you and me. You choose to keep believing the idiots who are making the lies up, and have been discredited by credible sources.

Besides how can someone be called a liar (like I was) for what someone else writes? Think about it Frank. Instead of spending all your time trying to spin the truth or re-focus issues.

I'm going to go over this one more time so everyone can understand better.

I posted an article written by someone other than myself on another thread.

Horace, called me a liar for what the article said, so I referred him to the scholars who wrote the article so he could write to them.

Here on this thread I posted another article about Mexico changing their immigration system, and how the U.S. should also fix theirs. Everyone except you knows immigration system is not working the way it is now.

Publius, George and Horace posted old (1-2yrs ago) articles claiming that Mexicos Immigration officers mistreated immigrants on Mexicos southern border worse then the treatment Ice gives immigrants here.

The articles didn't say they received treatment anywhere near as bad as the immigrants here have to endure. Those immigrants do suffer, but not at the hands of the Mexican immigration officers, and I proved that. I also proved some other enlightening things.

Try reading something other than the comics section of the newspapers, Evelyn. Unless you believe that everyone has it in for Mexico, you are just plain wrong about the way they treat their illegal immigrants. Try a Google search on your own and find out the truth. This hypocrisy is exactly why Mexico isn't getting any respect from US citizens on the issue of illegal immigration.

This from Christian News:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/060815a.aspx

Mexixo's Illegal Immigrants

Mexico’s Harsh Treatment of Illegals
By Dale Hurd

CBNNews.com – MEXICO CITY, Mexico - For the past month, America's attention has been focused on the Middle East war. During that time, another 300,000 illegal aliens have crossed America's border with Mexico. But you won't believe how Mexico treats its illegal aliens.

Illegal aliens from Mexico were allowed to march through America's cities, demanding citizenship – some even waved the Mexican flag. But illegal aliens inside Mexico, mostly from Guatemala and Honduras, are literally on the run.

Some travel by train and some hide, trying to stay one step ahead of the Mexican Federal Police.

The Mexican government was outraged by the movement to build a new wall on America's southern border. Mexico's Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez went before the cameras to protest.

Derbez said, "Mexican immigrants are not felons or terrorists. They are human beings who deserve respect and the opportunity to live with dignity."

But in Mexico, when it comes to the treatment of its illegal aliens it's, ‘Do as I say, not as I do.’

Mexico has called U.S. immigration policy "harsh," and has called the proposed wall on the U.S. Mexico border "shameful." But some have called the Mexican immigration policy "hypocritical."

Enter Mexico illegally and you're treated as a felon. If you're caught by the Federal Police, you'll be fortunate if you're only deported immediately. The unfortunate are robbed, abused, raped, or even murdered by corrupt police officers.

Fernando Aguilar Neri coordinates Red Cross efforts to help illegal aliens in Mexico.

“When people approach us, they are usually fearful that we work with the government and are afraid of being reported,” said Neri. “…One of the seven principles of the Red Cross is complete neutrality and independence, so we can't cooperate with the Mexican government on the illegal alien issue.”

Neri says that most illegals moving through Mexico try to avoid the cities.

The Catholic Church also shields illegal aliens from the Mexican government. CBN found two shelters for illegals in Mexico City, but weren't allowed inside.

Most of the Central Americans inside are on their way to the United States. They'll be fortunate if they arrive unharmed.

One immigrant from El Salvador said, "If you are carrying any money, the police take the money and then say, get out of here."

"We still have 20 days of travel (to reach the United States)," another one said.

But if you're a Mexican wanting to enter the U.S. illegally, then you can count on the Mexican government's help and support. It even has a special department called Grupos Beta that helps Mexicans cross the U.S. border illegally.

But in an interview with CBN News, the head of Mexico's Immigration Service, Hipolito Treviño, denied it.

“Grupos Beta is the Mexican government initiative which does not help people cross the border, but they do assist them when they have problems in the border area,” Trevino said.

But Grupos Beta gives them a booklet, which includes tips on how to safely cross the U.S border. Trevino denied the allegation that immigrants are also given maps by the government.

“No maps,” he said. “We give them recommendations about the dangerous animals they'll encounter, how much water they need every day, what to do in case they get lost, what to do in case they get detained by the border patrol, which paths are dangerous because of crime.”

The reason for the government's help? The cash sent home by Mexicans in the U.S. constitutes the second biggest source of foreign currency in Mexico after the oil industry. Last year that was $20 billion, or 2 percent of Mexico's GDP.

About 10 percent of Mexico's population is now living in the United States, that’s over 10 million people. And how many illegal aliens in its own country has Mexico legalized in the past five years? Just 15,000.

The Mexican government may think a new wall on the U.S. border is offensive, but critics are saying far worse things about Mexico's immigration policy.

Mexico wants migrant rights in U.S., but is harsh to undocumented Central Americans

This from Associated Press: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20060418-1004-mexico-mistreatingmigrants.html

Mexico wants migrant rights in U.S., but is harsh to undocumented Central Americans

By Mark Stevenson
ASSOCIATED PRESS

10:04 a.m. April 18, 2006

Central American migrants try to climb on a train headed north on their way to the United States. While Mexican immigrants demonstrate across the U.S. for better treatment of undocumented migrants, Mexico's own illegal population — hundreds of thousands of Central Americans — face robberies, assaults and extortion.
TULTITLAN, Mexico – While migrants in the United States have held tremendous demonstrations in recent weeks, the hundreds of thousands of undocumented Central American migrants in Mexico suffer mostly in silence.
Considered felons by the Mexican government, they fear detention, rape and robbery. Police and soldiers hunt them down at railroads, bus stations and fleabag hotels. Sometimes they are deported; more often officers simply take all their money.

While Mexico demands the humane treatment of its citizens who migrate to the U.S., it appears to be unable to guarantee similar rights for Central American migrants to this country.

The level of brutality Central American migrants face in Mexico was underscored on Monday, when police conducting a raid for undocumented migrants near a rail yard in central Mexico state shot to death a local man, apparently because his dark skin and work clothes made him look like a Central American.

Virginia Sanchez, a housewife who lives near the railroad tracks that carry Central Americans north to the U.S. border, say shootings like the one Monday in her town of Tultitlan are not infrequent.

"In the night, you hear the gunshots, and it's the judiciales (state police) chasing the migrants,” Sanchez said. “It's not fair to kill these people. It's not fair in the United States and it's not fair here.”
Neighbor Maria Elena Gonzalez said police sexually abuse female migrants. “The migrants have told us that they detain them just to rape them. They force them to strip, supposedly to search them, but the purpose is to sexually abuse them.”

Guatemalan immigrant Carlos Lopez, 28, who lay hidden in a nearby field waiting for a train heading north to the U.S.border, said Mexican police routinely rob and release migrants.

“If you're carrying any money, they take it from you – federal, state, local police, all of them,” Lopez said. In the 15 days he had been traveling across Mexico, Lopez, a farm laborer, recounted how he had been shaken down from the minute he stepped into the country.

“The soldiers were there as soon as we crossed the river,” he said. They said, 'You can't cross ... unless you leave something for us.'”

Sitting nearby, Jose Ramos, 18, of El Salvador, said the extortion occurs at every stop in Mexico, until migrants are left penniless and begging for food.

“If you're on a bus, they pull you off and search your pockets and if you have any money, they keep it and say, 'Get out of here,'” Ramos said of police in southern Chiapas state.

Others told of migrants beaten to death by police, their bodies left near the railway tracks to make it look as if they had fallen from the trains.

Central Americans, as columnist Gustavo Arellano of the Orange County Weekly pointed out, “are the Mexicans of Mexico.”

Migrants generally acknowledge that Mexican federal immigration agents are among the more honest of the country's law enforcement officers. The problem is, most migrants here usually are detained by police or soldiers, who technically aren't authorized to enforce immigration laws. Meanwhile, Mexico objects to the United States using army and local police forces to detain migrants.

Among other ironies: Mexican-migrant activists in the United States hotly oppose a congressional bill that would make undocumented immigration in the U.S. a felony – but Mexican law already classifies it as such. The crime is punishable by up to two years in prison, although deportation is more common.

The number of undocumented migrants detained in Mexico almost doubled from 2002, when 138,061 were caught, and 2005, when the number reached 240,269. Guatemalans represent 42 percent of those detained and Hondurans, 32.6 percent. Salvadorans account for most of the rest.

While pressing the United States for the legalization of millions of its citizens in the United States, Mexico has done little to legalize its own migrants: With a population of about 105 million, the government granted legalization to only about 15,000 migrants in the past five years.

Like the United States, Mexico is becoming reliant on immigrant labor. In a speech on immigration issues presented last year, Magdalena Carral, then-director of Mexico's National Immigration Institute, noted that Central American migrants were not just passing through on their way to the U.S., but were also staying and looking for work in southern Mexico.

“There are sectors of the Mexican economy which face labor shortages, but because there is no formal or efficient method (for work visas), they have to do it as undocumented workers,” Carral said.

Immigrants here account for only 0.5 percent of the population – far less than the 12 percent in the United States – so there is little public sentiment against the undocumented as there is in the U.S.

Compared with many of those demonstrating for citizenship rights in the United States, Lopez, who was waiting for the train, is poorer – he comes from an area of Guatemala where the average wage is often less than US$1 (euro.82) per day – and he doesn't plan to stay here forever.

“I think it would be good if you could work for two years, save up a little, and return to your own country with enough money to build a house,” Lopez said, adding that his dream house would “have four walls and nobody coming in at the end of the month telling you to pay the rent.”

Jose Luis Soberanes, president of Mexico's National Human Rights Commission, issued a report in December documenting many of the abuses of migrant rights.

“One of the saddest national failings on immigration issues,” Soberanes said, “is the contradiction in demanding that the North (the United States) respect migrants' rights, which we are not capable of guaranteeing in the South.”

This from Migration News, UC Davis:

Illegal Immigrants and Devaluation in Mexico

In the aftermath of Mexican criticism of Operation Gatekeeper and Prop. 187, there have been several reports of harsh Mexican policies toward illegal immigrants in Mexico. Although there are no "official" data on apprehensions and expulsions, it is estimated that the number of mostly Central Americans removed from Mexico during the first 11 months of 1994 averages 5,000 to 6,000 per month (Dec. MN). There were reportedly 143,000 illegal aliens removed from Mexico in 1993, and 90,000 in 1990.

Mexico's National Migration Institute reported that 3,651 illegal aliens were "deported" between January and November, suggesting that most illegal aliens are removed from Mexico informally rather than after a legal process.

Mexico issues about 125,000 work permits to foreign workers each year. A public education is guaranteed to all children in Mexico, but most schools require a birth certificate or a passport and visa to establish the identity of the child. This means that the children of illegal aliens are often barred from Mexican public schools. There have been roundups at hospitals to which undocumented Central Americans go to seek medical treatment.

Many of the illegal aliens in Mexico are Guatemalans employed in jobs that range from picking coffee beans to construction and maids. Violations of Mexico's minimum wage, and of basic human rights standards, are reportedly widespread where illegal Central Americans are employed.

There have been charges that Central Americans suffer rapes, beatings, extortion, and robbery at the hands of Mexican employers and police. One advocate for unauthorized Central Americans in Mexico is Tapachula bishop Jorge Arizmendi, who hopes that Prop. 187 will put Mexico's treatment of undocumented workers onto Mexico's national agenda. Some immigrants from Central America say that they were treated far worse in Mexico than the US.

The potential embarrassment from these complaints to President Zedillo after his denunciations of Prop. 187 reportedly prompted the Mexican government to undertake a thorough review of its immigration policies and their enforcement. In the past, Mexico has ignored Central Americans passing through to the US, but now that some are apparently staying in relatively wealthier Mexico, the government feels compelled to act. Mexico has increased the number of roadblocks near its border with Guatemala.

Mexican GDP per capita ($3470 in 1992) is 3.5 times the Guatemalan level of $980; picking coffee beans in Mexico pays twice as much as the same job in Guatemala. About 40,000 Guatemalans live in camps for political refugees in the state of Campeche. During his campaign, President Zedillo had promised more public spending to help the Mexican poor and to offset the inequality that accompanied Mexico's boom, and lower interest rates to spur foreign and domestic investment in Mexican factories, housing, and infrastructure.

Mexico was headed for a deficit in its current account trade balance of $30 billion in 1994, equivalent to almost eight percent of its $395 billion GDP. Its reserves fell from $30 billion early in 1994 to $6 billion on December 22 as Mexico attempted to support the peso at a rate of 3.45 pesos to $1. Nonetheless, Mexico's new Finance Minister, Jaime Serra Puche, confidently predicted in mid-December that the economy would grow by four percent in 1995, and that the peso-dollar exchange rate would remain stable.

On December 19, Zapatista rebels reported falsely that they had taken over 38 towns in Chiapas. On December 20, Mexico devalued the peso, and it eventually fell over 40 percent, from 3.4 pesos to $1 to 5.7 pesos to $1, before settling at 5 pesos to $1 on December 29. Mexican interest rates jumped to 40 percent, credit dried up as banks stopped lending, the Mexican stock market fell sharply, and there were fears that Mexico would not have enough dollars to pay the interest it owes on its foreign debts.

According to the estimates of University of California, Davis economist Ed Taylor, a 10 percent devaluation of the peso could increase Mexico-to-US migration by 17 percent (March MN). If this village-based estimate proves to be correct, there is likely to be a surge in Mexico-to-US migration.

The Mexican explanation for the devaluation--to offset the capital flight associated with Zapatista activity in Chiapas-- was described in the US as an attempt to cover-up fundamental economic problems. Some predicted that the peso devaluation would be a blow to foreigners' confidence in the Mexican economy. Foreigners have $75 billion invested in Mexican financial markets, and there were fears of a capital flight in 1995..

Mexico plans more privatization and stricter enforcement of rules designed to promote competition in 1995, but it remains dependent on foreign investment for the job creation needed to absorb one million new workforce entrants each year. Mexican exports and internal savings are not sufficient to pay for the country's imports, making Mexico dependent on an inflow of foreigners' savings. As interest rates rose in the US and elsewhere, speculators bet that Mexico too would have to raise interest rates, and that rising rates would slow economic growth in Mexico, forcing Mexico to devalue the peso.

Devaluing the peso makes Mexican exports cheaper and more attractive to foreign buyers, but it also fuels inflation in Mexico. The Mexican government has promised to cut government spending and allow interest rates to rise to prevent an inflationary surge, but this means that the country risks recession that may also reduce the attractiveness of the country to foreigners.

We anti's in here have been called liars and racists many times just because we agree with a certain article or statistic or a certain person in the media. That doesn't mean that we have allowed them to influence us, it just means using our own common sense or even our own personal experiences and research that our views happen to coincide with one another. Yet the pro's think it alright for them to do likewise and get their feathers all ruffled if we challenge them on it or try to defend ourselves from their initial verbal attacks on us.

If you had any common sense you wouldn't be believing lies when presented with the truth, unless you had a gun to your head. LOL! Only ignorant people believe lies, or racist who make the lies up and use them fully aware that they are lies, to demonize people they hate.

It doesn't matter whether I believe in a certain statistic or not. I am not likley to be swayed by a statistic presented by either side as they both claim to have the actual facts. Both sides can and do use biased information and claim it as truth. I don't dwell on those things anyway. My position on illegal immigration is based on our laws and just plain common sense.

The pro's do the same thing. They demonize all Americans who are opposed to illegal immigration even those who don't have a racist agenda. They put us all in one group as racits, and haters. They especially hate and like to demonize White Americans.

I could point out a forum that is an excellent example of that but you already know who I am talking about.

OBAMAPHOBIA, very good. That is a phobia a lot of Americans have, including myself. Phobia--an irrational and excessive fear of an object or situation which in most cases involves a sense of endangerment or a fear of harm. That is a fear of a man that will put this nation on a road to destruction if given the power of the Presidency. His slogans of HOPE and CHANGE are hollow words that mean Hope for the best and CHANGE for the worst. The empty suit doesn't have the experience nor the knowledge to guide this country in a positive direction. His rock star image is a creation of media hype and a following of young voters who do not have a clue about the issues or the political system.

A phobia of Obama is very justified and should be spread far and wide before it's too late. As the first Black President (God forbid) he will do well to keep his head low and his secret service protection at full force. Whether you like it or not, face the fact that his life will be in constant danger from those that will never accept him as President. People keep comparing him to MLK and JFK and their lives were cut short by people that did not agree with their