How soon we forget that just recently a former teacher of that school district observed that these "ethnic study" classes were teaching anti-American and anti-White rhetoric cloaked as learning history and pushing academic achievement.

It is nothing more than teaching our kids racial and ethnic divide and resentment thru historical events rather that trying to unite them in today's world.

I question the credibility of that proposed teacher who obviously had an agenda in criticizing this program without taking into account the real academic progress of the students that was measured in a district-wide standardized test and earned higher scores than some other students.

No, Frank, accusations of "anti-American" and "anti-White" are from people who want to see it that way — it doesn't make it so.

Thanks for covering this, Marisa.

Horne is actually the State Superintendent of Public Instruction that oversees Arizona, so his clout/scope is more than just overseeing Tucson. I'm not able to be at the rally, which is scheduled to begin in a few minutes, but have a few friends/close contacts attending and will get info from them this afternoon on what transpired.

One of the most important roles for education is to help us figure out who we are and how we fit into the human and non-human universe around us. It sounds like these programs were very successful at that job.

Taking away African American studies, Native American studies, Mexican American/Raza studies and Pan Asian studies is not just an attempt to make histories other than those of Europeans and their descendants invisible, again. It is also an attempt to promote ignorance, low self-esteem and low school performance among minority children.

What could be the benefit of that to anyone?

Perhaps to keep a low-skilled, malleable, cheap workforce?

Is it the same idea that brought about lynchings of successful black business owners in the Southeast? Because only "white" Americans are supposed to be able to prosper?

Incidentally, I believe minority students should carefully study all history - European, their own, those of all other cultures and countries. The same as European-descended students should.

Just like I hope every child will become fluent in English, Spanish and some other languages. Knowledge is good, ignorance is dangerous.

Very simple problem, immigration and the fact that Arizona has finished 50th in the Union in education means things are going to have to change. Obviously money is being wasted on programs that are not educating the students. Given the fact the state tax for education is lower than most states in the union per person.There is no room for these programs. Use the money for science studies, English, and mathematics, and other more important programs.

It was a Hispanic teacher that blew the whistle on that program and how it was teaching resentment and hatred of whites and traditional American culture and society. It's pure Marxist BS.

Funny how they don't have any "ethnic studies" in Mexico teaching hatred and resentment of the Euro-Spanish who colonized Mexico and their descendants. No, they come to the U.S. and forment hatred of the evil ANGLOS!

You can teach self esteem, pride, and how to be a better student in another way. People have been teaching those values for years. You don't need to forment resentment and hostility towards one group of people by another in order to teach kids self-esteem and how to be good students! What a bunch of Marxist dribble!

There is no need for these "ethnic studies." We should all be learning patriotism in the schools. They separate people into groups and drill into these kids' heads that they are separate from the rest of us. It fosters division, not unity. And that is exactly how the left wants it so they can use these people to achieve their political objectives.

I hope the non-Hispanics and the non-racist Hispanics really back this superintendent on this. It is racist and has no place in a school system. If the parents want to indoctrinate their kids with the "victim/grievance" mentality and resentment, let them do it at home. They need not do it on the TAXPAYERS' DIME!

The underlying agenda is that it is Marxist/Socialist ideology. The intent is to undermine the cohesiveness of our society and thus weaken it. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

This is only going to lead to what you see in places like Iraq, Lebanon, and the Balkans. It will be ethnic strife and conflict because traditional Americans (non-Socialists) are not going to get on board with this agenda.

And this entire "amnesty" issue is politically motivated. Poor, uneducated people will vote Democrat. And the far left sees this as their chance to change this country into a "progressive (Socialist) paradise using these people. "Compassion" my behind, it's all about political power. It is just hiding behind the race issue because they can.

If we didnt white wash everything and told the truth their would be no need to tteach each culture the truth about their history and what their people did.

Google white washing Americas history and read some of the following stories.
SHAME ON US!

Book Review | The Journal of American History, 91.4 | The ...Whitewashing America: Material Culture and Race in the Antebellum Imagination. ... Content in the History Cooperative database is intended for personal, ...
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Show map of 1023 4th Ave, San Diego, CA 92101

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"we should all be learning patriotism in our schools" LOL!

Shouldn't you practice what you preach? Being a racist is NOT patriotic.

Advocating justice and equality and any other rights afforded to people within our borders is being patriotic.

Spreading hate and lies is not patriotic, neither is trying to change our constution to fit a racist agenda.

Spreading love, helping others, encouraging others to do the same is the American way.

Roger, I agree with you. The basics should be stressed as the ciriculum in our schools and not waste taxpayer money on "ethnic studies."

As far as the remark by another member in here that "knowledge is good, ignorance is dangerous" I basically agree but not when it comes to learning another language in this country. Unless one plans to work in the tourism industry or travel abroad a lot, it is a waste of time. If you don't use it, you lose it. It isn't ignorant not learn a language you aren't going to use. Better to prepare a student for a trade. Americans (U.S. citizens) have a common language for communication and that is all that is needed in most instances. Those who think we should be bi-lingual are usually Spanish speakers who want Spanish to be on the same level as English in this country or to replace it as the common one. They fool no one.

"There is no room for these programs. Use the money for science studies, English, and mathematics, and other more important programs."

Agreed.

Sorry, I am not a racist, so that does make me patriotic. Look in the mirror for racism.

Our Constitution nor do our laws give illegal aliens the same rights as citizens. Justice? I am all for that. Our laws say deport illegal aliens.

I have never spread any hate or lies. I don't hate anyone. I don't spout any info that is not fact.

How about spreading love and compassion for American citizens whose country is being invaded? That is the American way!

Ignorance breeds the kind of racism we see every day on this forum. YOU fool no one.

People who advocate ignorance are, fools.

Since Latina/os pay a substantial amount of the tax base, and undocumented people pay an even higher ratio of taxes to the services they receive (especially with respect to healthcare), Latinos - and other immigrants - can rightfully ask that subjects of interest are taught in the schools they finance.

I am always depressed by the Americans who believe not knowing something is better than knowing it. They are one reason this country is in such sharp decline.

Another immigrant group I actually find inspiring with respect to their emphasis on their children's education and the sacrifices they are willing to make for it: the Chinese. We would probably do well to emulate them more.

How about spreading love and compassion for American citizens whose "country is being invaded"?

Another of your racist rants and lies.

Your ignorance about the meaning of what is racist may be your problem. Look up the word racist.

This is another reason we need Ethnic Studies in our schools.

L. Ling-chi Wang
Department of Ethnic Studies
University of California, Berkeley
lcwang@uclink.berkeley.edu

Ethnic Studies on the Berkeley Campus

The dominant perspective on racial and cultural differences in the intellectual tradition of Euro-America has been surprisingly unchanging, from biblical theology to present-day social sciences and humanities. From the biblical notion of "chosen people" to pseudo-scientific social Darwinism of the 19th century and the present-day social theory of assimilation and ideology of integration, the underlying assumption of Euro-American racial superiority and cultural supremacy in our intellectual tradition has never been seriously undermined or challenged. In other words, while the theoretical foundation may have shifted from theology to biology and then to social sciences, the dominant ideology on race persists in our knowledge, in the ways we reflect and organize our knowledge.

In a direct challenge to this dominant racist ideology, Ethnic Studies on the Berkeley campus came into existence in Fall 1969 following two months of massive student protest and intense faculty soul-searching. Organized as an autonomous department reporting directly to the Chancellor, Ethnic Studies consisted then of four independent Ethnic Studies programs—Afro-American Studies, Asian American Studies, Chicano Studies, and Native American Studies—each provided an administrator and a core faculty to develop its own curriculum, degree program, and research agenda.

The autonomous status symbolized an explicit repudiation of the dominant ideology of race and race relations perspectives in the Euro-American intellectual tradition, or what historian Harold Cruse characterizes as a rejection of the "integrationist ethnic," a deeply rooted intellectual and ideological consensus aimed at insuring the hegemony of the cultural particularism of the Euro-Americans and the exclusion or nullification of cultural particularisms represented by the racial minorities. In other words, the early advocates of Ethnic Studies deliberately rejected the notion of curricular "mainstreaming" or "integration," favoring, instead, autonomous academic programs built on the principles of solidarity among racial minorities, "self-determination," and "educational relevance," unencumbered by failed traditional paradigms and biased scholarship. As the new kid on the block, the autonomous department provided the needed institutional protection, freedom, and flexibility during its formative years and the necessary resource to develop new programs and anti-racist and counter-hegemonic scholarship

"Since Latina/os pay a substantial amount of the tax base, and undocumented people pay an even higher ratio of taxes to the services they receive (especially with respect to healthcare), Latinos - and other immigrants - can rightfully ask that subjects of interest are taught in the schools they finance."

The idea that llegal aliens pay more of their share in health care is ludicrous, as the failure to pay their own health care bills is one reason why many hospitals are going bandrupt, and why the citizens pay so much in insurance premiums.

Sharp decline? In what respect? If refer to our educational system, the Latino graduation rate from high school is among the lowest of all minorities. If you mean law abiding, one only has to note that it is the Latino community that has been encouraging and even supporting illegal immigration and the undermining of our Social Security system through the use of identity theft. One only has to look at the huge increase in Latino gang violance and gang members to note another reason for decline. Another is the loss of Latino "family values", as realized in the widespread out-of-wedlock births and single parent families. If you're talking about decline as the result of wasted tax expenditures, all you have to do is add up to the billions of dollars required to defend our sovereign borders as the result of illegal aliens. If you're talking about the decline in the already limited opportunites for enrollment for citizens at state universities at in-state tuition, one only has to look at Hispanic demands for such tuition rates by illegal immigrant advocates. Or how about the decline in safety on our roads, and increases in auto insurance for citizens as the result of illegal aliens driving without insurance. One only has to be involved in an accident with an uninsured illegal aliens to encouter this decline up close and personal. Or how about the school systems that are being forced to teach ESL to Spanish only speakers. These are resources that should really be expended on citizens and legal aliens. The result is that the children of the citizens and legal residents are getting a smaller piece of the educational pie than they would otherwise. The result is mockery of the preamble to the Constitution, "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." The Constitution was never intended to be applied to foreign invaders, whether civilian or military. The fact that some advocates attempt to do so and are partially successful is one of those unbeknownst flaws that Franklin referred to when that document was ratified. Try substituting specific peoples, like "citizens of Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicuargua or any other nation on this planet for that matter, for "We", "ourselves and posterity" to see how ridiculous illegal alien advocates are when they attempt to lay claim for citizenship for illegal aliens. The thought that foreigners could force their way into our country and demand the right of citizenship is anathema to anyone with good sense. It is obvious to anyone not mindlessly clinging to their ethnicity for justification that foreigner are not entitled to claims of citizenship without consent of the citizens of this country. There is no inherent Constitutional or moral right to enfranchisement for Hispanic Central Americans anymore than there is for a citizen of France who overstays his tourist visa.

The ignorant and racist ones are those who have turned their back on their own country, it's laws and their fellow citizens in favor of some illegal foreigners who just happen to be ethnically like themselves!

Frank-Horace,

It may not be the case you're racists, but what else can the "pro's", as you called them, make of this constant need of yours to malign the illegal immigrant? These are people that, as Frank says, "just happen to be ethnically" something you're not. I can understand Evelyn and Laura's accusations, though I have a different explanation for why your side has turned into a rotten and vicious part of the conversation.

All your comments are based on lies. Do yourself a favor. Read Jason Riley's book. It is not leftist propaganda. It is not anti-US propaganda. It is not multicultural nonsense. It is reasonable, and it will tell you what the facts are.

Muy interesante Evelyn. Nunca fui en clases de estudios etnicos. Gustaria ir un dia.

Otra cosa - pienso que no vale la pena discutir con los racistas. Son siempre los mismos y siempre escriven lo mismo.

The ignorant racists have turned their back on the constution, justice and equality for all, and their fellow citizens.

John Tanton and their ignorance leads them to believe only white is right.

It is also out of ignorance they allow themselves to be used by others with racist views.

Because of ignorance they are unable to think for themselves.

arturo, there is nothing rotten, vicious or racist about pointing out the negative facts of illegal immigration. Even if there was no downside to illegal immigration, the fact remains that they have no right to be in this country. That is the bottom line of it all.

In 1986 we gave millions of illegals amnesty and what did it get us.....millions and millions more here today. It must stop and we must not reward immigration law violaters again. We need to follow the letter of the law and that is to deport them as we discover them and more importantly thru workplace enforcement and secure our borders.

The really ignorant racists are those who think that our Constitution negates our immigration laws. Justice? Yes, we want justice for both illegal and citizen law breakers. Equality? There is no actual equality between a citizen and an illegal alien other than basic human rights. Someone is twisting the words of the Constitution to suit their agenda. Call the federal government and ask them to interpret it for you and ask them if the Constitution or any other founding document of this country negates our immigration laws. They will laugh in your face!

Most anti-illegal immigrationists think for themselves. They don't need Tanton, Dobbs or any other individual or group to tell them that violating our immigration laws is wrong. They aren't so stupid that they can't realize on our own that uncontrolled population growth in this manner is not good for our country either. They are already seeing for themselves the depressed wages and loss of jobs due to illegal immigration. They are already seeing for themselves the crowded conditions in our schools and hospital emergency rooms and the added burden of taxes on citizens to cover the illegal alien's social costs. One only has to google Parkland Hospital in Dallas to see how many kids are born from illegal alien mothers that we are having to foot the bill for.

It is totally disgusting that we have citizens in this country that care more about their illegal ethnic kind than they do about their own country and it's citizens and have nothing but utter contempt for our laws.

Speaking of Arizona, it doesn't look good for that criminal enterprise called the Chamber of Commerce in their challenge to the Arisona laws. And if Arizona is successful in defending it's hiring and licensing laws, every state in the union will do the same thing without hinderance from nuissance lawsuits from the ACLU and Hispanica advocacy groups. And judging by the weakness of the Chamber of Commerce challenge, the Supreme Court won't deign to hear the case. Your side is apparently destined to be a big loser.

Read this from the Tucson Citizen:
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/border/88275.php

Hiring illegal immigrants
Judges seem skeptical of sanctions law arguments
The Associated Press

PHOENIX - Federal appellate judges considering a challenge to an Arizona law prohibiting the hiring of illegal immigrants looked skeptically on arguments from business and civil rights groups that the state can't impose such restrictions.
During a hearing Thursday in San Francisco, a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals questioned whether a pre-existing federal law that prohibits such hirings prevents local governments from enacting their own rules.
The Arizona law prohibits employers from knowingly hiring illegal immigrants and requires businesses to verify the work eligibility of new hires. Businesses found to be in violation face the suspension or revocation of business licenses.
The law, which has yet to lead to an enforcement case being brought to court, was upheld by a federal judge in February.
The groups challenging the law contend the new Arizona restrictions are unconstitutional because cracking down on such hirings was the sole province of the federal government.
Jonathan Weissglass, an attorney arguing on behalf of groups challenging the Arizona law, said if Arizona gets away with establishing its own requirements and penalties, it will create a chaotic and burdensome atmosphere for employers and workers nationwide.
Judge John M. Walker said he found nothing in federal law that prohibits a state from requiring that employers use E-Verify. The program lets employer check the work eligibility of employees. The judge questioned what harm would result.
Weissglass said the harm is that Arizona's law removes an employer's ability to choose to use the program. By doing so, the law violates the federal government's exclusive domain over immigration law, he said.
Judge N. Randy Smith said he could find nothing in the federal law that prevents state and local governments from making such a mandate. If Congress intended states to stay out of mandating E-Verify, or of imposing sanctions through business licenses, it would have expressly said so, Smith said.
Judge Mary Schroeder questioned whether there was inconsistency between the federal law's voluntary use of E-Verify and Arizona's requirement that employers must use it to screen new hires.
Mary O'Grady, a lawyer leading the state's defense of the law, argued that Congress wanted to create an effective verification law, not necessarily a voluntary one. But by making it voluntary, the federal government was able to test the program and proceed cautiously.
"I didn't hear anything real encouraging on our behalf," said Dave Jones, executive director of the Arizona Contractors Association, one of the groups challenging the law.
It's unknown when the Court of Appeals will rule on the case.

TANTON'S PUPPETS! Spewing the same BS over and over and over and over and over and over and over and. Do you think if you say it enough times it will become true?

"...the fact remains that they have no right to be in this country. That is the bottom line of it all."

"In 1986 we gave millions of illegals amnesty and what did it get us.....millions and millions more here today."

And so we must not make the same mistake again. After we make legal the ones Americans (the entrepreneur, but more important the consumer) have taken in, we need to make it easier for those we will need in the future to come in legally.

"...and we must not reward immigration law violaters..."

It is not a reward but a realization that we made a mistake by not making it easier for them to come in legally when we should have known we would be needing them and thus inviting them. It's called taking responsibility for your mistakes.

arturo, if we legaized the ones already here, IT WOULD BE THE SAME MISTAKE ALL OVER AGAIN. So what are you saying, let's do it the second time and hope we won't have to do it the third time? When does it end, arturo?

No, the consumer has not taken in any illegal aliens. They came here on their own accord and the greedy, lawless employers hired them!

If you think it is so hard to come here legally, it is because we can only take in so many immigrants without committing national suicide. That is why we have a quota on immigration. 1. It is based on our needs. 2. To make sure we don't have an explosive population growth. 3. To make sure that immigrants from many countries get a fair chance. 4. To protect our natural resources. 5. To not overburden our schools, hospitals and other social infrastructures.

When immigrants come here illegally in uncontrolled numbers, none of the above is accomplished.

For the most part we have Americans that will do most any job (accept in the AG industry) for a fair wage. Where do you get that we need 20 million unskilled foreign workers? The employers want and need them because they work cheaper, that's all! Therefore we have made NO mistakes in our immigration policies.

Again, if there was any so-called "inviting" done it was by these unscrupulous employers, not your everyday working American.

Millions of Latin Americans are born into poverty every year, and many will come in spite of the fact that new guest worker program quotas will be immediately filled. We already have people milling around Home Depots across the country today. It can only get worse if we don't enforce our immigration laws. Will you people have the courage to deport the excess numbers, many of whome will bring their family members? You people don't have the good sense or courage to deport those already here. How can you do so in the future? You're shortsighted and inconsiderate of the unintended consequences of caving in to illegal immigration. The only thing at the end of Marisa's tunnel is overpopulation and the establishment of ramshackle towns like those found in Latin America. The solutions to Latin America are not found by migration, but by fixing the problems within those nation states.

I know you eat because you are on this forum posting. If you eat, you are a consumer. Unless you grow all your own food and butcher all your own meat you are consuming food that in all likelihood has been touched by an immigrant first.

Do You ware cloths?
Do you drive on paved roads?
Do you eat out?
Do you live in a house?
Do you use public places, hospitals, hotels and the list goes on and on. If you do you are giving the immigrants a job.

May I suggest you build a wall around your house and never come out again! HA! HA!

Immigrants and the Economy
(From the National Immigration Forum)

Immigrants wear many hats in American society. They are family members, students, workers, business owners, investors, clergymen, and members of the armed services-to name just a few of their roles. According to the most comprehensive study ever done on immigrants, the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) found that in all their combined roles, immigrants make indispensable contributions to our economy. They compose an increasingly essential proportion of our workforce. Through their tax payments, they help finance the costs of schools, health care, roads, welfare payments, Social Security, and the nation’s defense. Of course, immigrants are also users and beneficiaries of these government programs.

Immigrants are a Plus for our Economy – Immigrants and their children bring long-term economic benefits to the United States as a whole. Immigrants add about $10 billion each year to the U.S. economy. This estimate does not include the impact of immigrant-owned businesses or the impact of highly skilled immigrants on overall productivity.

Immigrants Pay Their Way – By conservative estimates, immigrant households paid an estimated $133 billion in direct taxes to federal, state, and local governments in 1997. The typical immigrant and his or her descendants pay an estimated $80,000 more in taxes than they will receive in local, state, and federal benefits over their lifetimes.

Naturalized Immigrants Pay More than Their Share – Immigrants who become U.S. citizens typically pay more in taxes than do native-born Americans. Adult, foreign-born, naturalized citizens actually have higher adjusted gross incomes (averaging $40,502) than families with U.S.-born citizens only ($35,249). Federal taxes paid by families with a naturalized citizen average $6,580 per year compared with $5,070 for U.S.-born-only families.

Immigrant-Founded Businesses Are an Important Revenue Source – Businesses founded by immigrants are a source of substantial economic and fiscal gain for U.S. citizens. Ten high-tech firms founded by immigrants, generated $28 billion in revenues in 1996. These and other businesses started by immigrants add at least another $29 billion to the total amount of taxes paid by immigrants.

As They Assimilate, Immigrants Become Net Economic Contributors – Immigrants’ earnings rise over time as they climb the economic ladder of success in America. In their first years in the United States, immigrants typically are a net cost to the country, but over time— usually after 10 to 15 years in the United States—they turn into net contributors.

An Education and Training Windfall – Most immigrants arrive in the United States in the prime of their working years. More than 70 percent of immigrants are over the age of 18 when they arrive in the United States. That means there are roughly 17.5 million immigrants in the United States today whose education and upbringing were paid for by the citizens of the sending country, not American taxpayers. The windfall to the United States of obtaining this human capital at no expense to American taxpayers is roughly $1.43 trillion. This makes immigrants a fiscal bargain for our country.

Immigrant Workers are Essential to the U.S. Economy – During the recent unprecedented expansion in the American economy, immigrant workers were essential in filling jobs ranging from computer programmers to hotel and restaurant workers. As America's workforce ages, and the "baby boomers" retire, immigrants will again play an essential role in reducing a long-term projected labor shortage. The U.S. Department of Labor projects that between 1998 and 2008, the number of jobs will increase by 20 million, but the number of workers will increase by just 17 million. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has repeatedly commented that, when labor markets are tight, immigration is an important source of workers. With the U.S. labor supply projected to shrink relative to the number of jobs, Greenspan says that "there is an effective limit to new hiring, unless immigration is uncapped."

Immigrants Are Net Contributors to Social Security and Medicare – The total net benefit (taxes paid over benefits received) to the Social Security system in today’s dollars from continuing current levels of immigration is nearly $500 billion for the 1998-2022 period and nearly $2.0 trillion through 2072. Our population is aging, and each worker will be supporting a growing population of retirees. Immigrant workers will be an essential component to solving the long-term problem of financing Social Security.

New Rules to Affect Fiscal Calculations – Working-age immigrants who have been in the United States for more than ten years are less likely to receive welfare than the native-born. The exceptions, because of their special needs, are refugees and elderly immigrants. Welfare rules enacted by Congress in 1996 have made newly-arrived immigrants ineligilbe for most welfare benefits. This change will significantly affect cost/benefit calculations in the future, making the net fiscal benefit of immigrants even higher than it is today.

Beyond Fiscal Calculations – Overall, immigrants are a fiscal bargain for American taxpayers. Of course, the value of immigrants is not primarily measured by the dollar calculation of their fiscal impact. Immigrants contribute to America in many ways other than the size of their tax payments and the amount they pump into our economy. Their enrichment of our culture and the overall vitality they bring to American society are immeasurable in fiscal terms. They are a vital benefit to all Americans.

It's just too bad for you that our country doesn't recognize those who cheat the system as immigrants. If we did, to be fair, we'd have to grant entry to a billion other people who'd like to do the same. I'm sorry, but this country isn't a department store fire sale in which the person aggressive enough to wrestle a bargain from his competitor gets to cart it off. And illegal aliens do not get to set the rules, U.S. citizens do.

The costs of illegal immigration:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTUyZjY3NzExYjIxODU0NmVmYWE4MTAxNTZlOWJkNDk=

Frank/Horace,

Current immigration quotas do not begin to meet our country's aging population needs. For this reason, our prosperity has required illegal immigrants. They've filled in where we failed in our calculations. As we've seen illegal immigration increase, we've seen low levels of unemployment and growth in the economy. States like California with more illegal immigrants have done better.

Overpopulation is a myth. The US is not overpopulated, and the world is not overpopulated. This from Jason Riley's book: "...the entire population of the world today could be housed in the state of Texas, in single story single-family houses--four people to a house--and with a typical yard around each home." p. 39-40. Pretty spectacular looking at it that way.

"As we've seen illegal immigration increase, we've seen low levels of unemployment and growth in the economy. States like California with more illegal immigrants have done better."

I beg to differ:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget21feb21,0,6427050.story

SACRAMENTO -- California's budget shortfall has swollen to $16 billion from $14.5 billion, according to the state's chief budget analyst, who says the governor's proposal for closing the deficit is so flawed that her office took the rare step of drafting an alternative state spending plan for legislators to consider.

I here California's unemployment rate is increasing.

http://www.latimes.com/business/careers/work/la-fi-caljobs17-2008may17,0,1038351.story

California's unemployment rate holds at 6.2%
Almost 200,000 more people were out of work in April than a year earlier, however.
....
Unemployment in the Los Angeles Basin largely mirrored statewide trends. The rate rose by 0.1% to 5.9% in Los Angeles County, up from 4.9% a year earlier.

In Riverside and San Bernardino counties, monthly unemployment dropped 0.4% to 6.8%. In Orange County, it declined by 0.2% to 4.4%.

arturo, what you fail to realize in your population analogy is that even if the entire country's population could be placed inside of the state of Texas, it isn't just about space but natural resources and the social infrastructers needed to sustain a population. What about quality of life with that much population living in one area? Read about what "carrying capacity" of a country means at susps.org

Non-hispanic Americans are reproducing at replacement levels. Our birthrates are still nearlly double what our deathrates are. I see no shortage of people in this country.

If we need more foreign workers then so be it. But not thru illegal immigration. I am for a smaller economy to fit a smaller population anyway. It is much healtheir for our country in the long run.

Frank, I was not suggesting we all move to Texas.

The article you recommend is based on a very flawed study. Jason Riley deals with it in his new book. But you won't read it will you?

"I am for a smaller economy to fit a smaller population anyway."

There's nothing wrong with a small economy for a small population. But that will have no influence in the world. I think American values for freedom and democracy are what other nations should try to follow, rather than, say, Soviet oppression or Islamic fundamentalism.

arturo, you just don't get it, do you? I wasn't saying that you were suggesting we all move to Texas. What I was saying is that regardless of how little or how much "space" we have there is still the issue of natural resources and social infrastructure to support a population.

susps.org is flawed? How so? I will check my local library for the Riley book.

I will need to look more into this program in AZ, but based on this post it seems the true benefit for the students isn't necessarily learning "ethnic specific" history but rather the mentoring relationship established between the teacher who is of the same ethnicity as the student and therefore the student can role model. Perhaps the funding should go towards mentoring students and college application prep. I can tell you when I was in HS, 8 years ago it would not have helped me much or motivated me much to learn Chicano studies,BUT it would have sure as heck helped to have a strong Latino role model encouraging me to apply to college, take on AP classes and helping me fill out FAFSA and applications!

Jason Riley is a free market believer, he sides with the employers, no matter industry, to allow the market supply the demand for workers. All that does is drive down wages. For which I have asked many times:

"Globalization means that soon, we, too, might be working for pennies an hour. It’s like Adam Smith in reverse: trade with people less free than you, and your own freedom is threatened. So do we lower our wages to match that of poorer countries or do we try to raise there wages to match ours?"

If you want to read a good book, try, Nobodies: Modern American Slave Labor and the Dark Side of the New Global Economy; by John Bowie.

When I was in school in the 90s, each year a segment of our course study dealt with environmental issues. Every year, starting in Kindergarten we were taught about safe-guarding our environment and our natural resources. I cannot remember a time when we were not taught that overpopulation was NOT healthy for the earth's environment. Now, all of a sudden, I am hearing that overpopulation is not now, nor has ever been a problem? From what I understand, population concerns goes clear back to the 60s! So, the whole thing makes no sense to me. Who wants to live in a teeming, overcrowded country like China or India or Pakistan? This just makes no sense. I would rather have quality of life than a humongous economy.

Except for the U.S., Canada, and Australia, all of the countries with the highest standards of living are small countries.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-quality-of-life-map.html

We can still have a nice standard of living being a smaller country with a smaller population.

It seems to me, though, that we are going back in time to the days described by Charles Dickens during the Industrial Revolution. How else can we compete with a country like China which has a Communistic political system where the people have no choice in where they will work, under what conditions, or for what wages? There are no protections for workers or environmental laws. I watched a program on C Span one day on globalization and it was said that China is very predatory and take advantage of third world countries ever so much more than the U.S.

Maybe it is time to have a smaller population and let a country like China become the military and economic power in the world. Maybe all the America haters will be much more satisfied with how China does things than they were with the evil, imperialistic U.S. Let China worry about spreading Democracy and acting as the world's police. Then we can just mind our own business like Sweden or Norway and take care of our own people.

"Current immigration quotas do not begin to meet our country's aging population needs. For this reason, our prosperity has required illegal immigrants."

I'm sorry, Arturo, but what we need are legal immigrants who fit the educational needs of a modern nation in competition with an ever more educated foreign work force. We can afford to be far more particular than the illegal work force that is forcefully imposing itself on us. Believe me when I say that I've been in other parts of the world, where there are Asian Indians with masters degrees in engineering doing manual labor. Mexico isn't producing the quality of work force that we should be looking to add as replacements for our ageing work force. The same thing goes for our schools with high dropout rates. Mexico's government has failed its people. If Mexico was producing citizens that on average had high school educations, they would be acceptable, but the fact it is that is not. I know how disappointing this is to Latinos, but it's a fact of life. If Mexican illegal aliens were in competition with those from other nations with better educations, there would be few Mexican illegal aliens in our workforce today. We are not getting the best of the best at this point, hard working or risking death through the desert notwithstanding. While noble sounding, these are not sufficient qualifications.

Our prosperity will never depend upon low skill labor. Much of the manual labor done by illegal aliens now will eventually be automated, as it is done in Japan, where labor costs are enormous. The presence of a large pool of illegal labor has stifled innovation. Jobs that could eventually be automated are being done by brute force. The Chinese will alway be able to beat our labor costs in the manufacturing business, and when their standard of living reaches a certain point, and their wages raise to a certain levelt, other Asian countries will beat them. No, continued prosperity could no more permanently depend upon unskilled labor than picking cotton seeds by hand could continue after Eli Whitney invented the Cotton Gin.

Allessandro and Horace, excellent posts!

Horace, you have no idea what you're talking about. If Mexican immigrants were in fact equally educated and thus to you more desirable, like US natives, they would actually be competing with US natives for jobs and hurting American workers. That wouldn't happen, simply because an educated Mexican population would just stay in Mexico, with family and in better weather, and put their education to use there. That's what Mexico will be like soon. But for the past 40 years until now, their lower education levels complement better educated US natives, who need them for less-skilled work. In 1960, half of US natives didn't finish high school, so a greater supply of uneducated Americans meant fewer Mexicans were coming, despite an open border.

John Riley has interesting things to say of automation, how an efficient economy is likely and unlikely to replace people with machines.

Liquidmicro, California unemployment is increasing slightly from the low levels experienced when illegal immigrants were coming in greater numbers. But the border has been practically shut, government is intimidating businesses, and that's causing fewer migrants to come north and probably greater numbers to go back south. The recent increases in unemployment should be attributed to the new anti-illegal-immigrant environment.

That last sentence should be changed to: “It is safe to say that unemployment is going up in the new anti-illegal-immigrant environment.” There are many things at play here, the new anti-illegal-immigration environment is only one of them.

"I cannot remember a time when we were not taught that overpopulation was NOT healthy for the earth's environment."

It's sad that American youth are so lied to.

"Maybe it is time to have a smaller population and let a country like China become the military and economic power in the world."

I think America has better things to teach the world. You disagree. I love America. You fall under, your words, "American hater".

Rather, "America hater".

"If you want to read a good book, try, Nobodies: Modern American Slave Labor and the Dark Side of the New Global Economy; by John Bowie."

Liquidmicro, I know of that book and I do plan to read it. My reaction right now having not read it is that those who exploit workers, easier if they're illegal immigrants, get their motivation from those out to demonize illegal immigrants, like you. Why respect them if they're criminals, job stealers, gangsters, scum, child molestors.

arturo, I saw nothing in Allesandro's post that would implicate her as an "America hater." How in the world did you get that out of her concerns for this country?

It isn't a lie that too much population can harm any country. It is just common sense and logic. The more people the more our natural resources are depleted, the more air pollution, the more demands of everything including food, water, ariable land space. More stress is put on our schools and hospitals with overcrowded conditons. The more demands for energy sources. The more we have to build and destroy our forests and wetlands. Are you kidding me? Concern for these things is not hating America but loving it instead.

Arturo, I did not question your love of country and, frankly, you have no right to call me an America hater.

Where did I ever say or indicate that the U.S. did not have anything good to bring to the world? On the contrary, I have always said that I think the U.S. is a force for good. You might want to direct your accusations at others on this blog, however, as some of them do not share my sentiments in that regard.

You were so busy calling me an America hater that you did not address the facts I presented that it is quite possible to have a prosperous country with a high standard of living with a small population.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to be concerned with population and how it affects our quality of life--the water resources, arable land, landfill space, energy consumption. Like I said, it just cracks me up to no end that we were all taught that overpopulation was a drain on natural resources and added to pollution and now, all of a sudden, it's all a lie. Amazing.

And lastly, we are much too extended militarily in the world. We cannot sustain this for much longer. This is one of the factors which contributed to the fall of the Roman Empire--that and allowing people into their society who did not assimilate. Those people eventually turned on them and conquered them and plunged Western culture into the Dark Ages.

Wanting to pull in and concentrate on our own needs and our own population does not make me an America hater. On the contrary. My point about China, although too obtuse, was that they are concentrating on building up their society, their economy. They are not bankrupting themselves running all over the world spreading democracy.

Furthermore, IMO globalists do not love ANY country. They view borders and nation-states and "love of country" as silly anachronisms.